tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4764158821384594980.post916445967562886878..comments2024-03-29T08:12:28.476-04:00Comments on Age of Ravens: Combat Mechanics for Modified GURPSLowell Francishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02359280169506945906noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4764158821384594980.post-18328347832240696242009-03-12T08:56:00.000-04:002009-03-12T08:56:00.000-04:00Sure, GURPS math is harder than a simple roll + mo...Sure, GURPS math is harder than a simple roll + mod, but that's like saying "2" is higher than "1". It's true, but it's such a small difference that it's not an issue.<BR/><BR/>I agree that any amount of simplification is good for a game, but you're still shaping GURPS math into something over complicated. 99.9% of the rolls you make require nothing more than checking whether you make your skill roll or you don't. Which is exactly what you mentioned earlier when you said "Most systems have an attacker roll against the defender's fixed defense target number, which is simpler still". The fixed defense target number in GURPS is your skill number. Simple, no?<BR/><BR/>Going back to contested rolls, in the many years of playing/running GURPS I could probably count the number of contested rolls I've seen on two hands, and none of them took any more time to accomplish than a normal roll. The system just doesn't require them very often.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4764158821384594980.post-66578169786057981572009-03-10T14:49:00.000-04:002009-03-10T14:49:00.000-04:00I'm not saying GURPS math is hard. It's harder tha...I'm not saying GURPS math is hard. It's harder than simple roll high + mod contested rolls. The prefrontal cortex has very little RAM, so it's bad for a game system to distract it. Addition tends to be fast, switching between addition and subtraction tends to slow things down.<BR/><BR/>I've repeatedly seen people go through the "Made it by six! No, seven!" at the table. People like chemists and engineers. It slows down play. People who aren't professional math users (like me and most folks) have to do their sums out loud when they switch targets and modifiers. We often skip the "No, seven!" part or delay it until we catch it later. "Damn, Rob, my math was wrong last turn. I didn't miss by one. I hit!" I've only done that once, but it was annoying. Rob K was gracious, and gave me the hit retroactively. I didn't think I deserved it, but I didn't argue the point.<BR/><BR/>Even incremental simplification can really speed up a game and improve play. Lowell is going to try to avoid "margin of success" rules in his GURPS, which is good.Gene Hahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07389258008505629339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4764158821384594980.post-53077825651995938342009-03-10T11:08:00.000-04:002009-03-10T11:08:00.000-04:00>>GURPS is bad for contested rolls because y...>>GURPS is bad for contested rolls because you need to calculate a negative number (skill 18, roll 12, -6 margin) which you then multiply by -1. This gets especially difficult if your effective roll is negative (skill 18, roll of 6 with +8 to hit, effective roll of -2, -20 margin).<<<BR/><BR/>Gene, I'm stunned. You're making it waaaay more complicated than it really is. There's no need at all to throw so much math into it (i.e. multiplying by -1 and such).<BR/><BR/>If you have a skill of 18 and you roll a 12 then you make the roll by 6. That's it; no math other than what is required to determine if you make a roll or miss it and by how much in either case. Same goes for your second example: if you have a skill of 18 and have +8 to hit then your effective skill is 26. Roll a 6 and you make it by 20.<BR/><BR/>For contested rolls, whomever makes their roll by the larger amount is the winner. GURPS is only bad for contested rolls if you make it that way by over complicating it with unnecessary mathematics.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4764158821384594980.post-54713983384013709822009-03-09T14:30:00.000-04:002009-03-09T14:30:00.000-04:00I like it; just enough crunch. Nice work.I like it; just enough crunch. Nice work.Kaijuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06184830369889881159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4764158821384594980.post-79695612443608918122009-03-09T12:48:00.000-04:002009-03-09T12:48:00.000-04:00I'd love to read comments from the people who love...I'd love to read comments from the people who love Rolemaster crunch, and how they'd like to see a modern version of it. I tend towards simplicity.<BR/><BR/>Specific to this post, I'm not a fan of GURPS attack/defense rules. If I have Mace skill level 18 and roll a 5, I hit but haven't scored a crit. If the defender has Block 12 and rolls a 12, he's warded off any attack except a critical hit. This means that even a high skill character will repeatedly fail to hit a high defense character. There's no melee solution for this problem.<BR/><BR/>BESM's solution is to make combat a contested roll. You compare the total of attack and defense rolls, plus skills and modifiers. Whoever has the highest total wins. Most systems have an attacker roll against the defender's fixed defense target number, which is simpler still.<BR/><BR/>GURPS is bad for contested rolls because you need to calculate a negative number (skill 18, roll 12, -6 margin) which you then multiply by -1. This gets especially difficult if your effective roll is negative (skill 18, roll of 6 with +8 to hit, effective roll of -2, -20 margin).Gene Hahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07389258008505629339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4764158821384594980.post-78274362001816470502009-03-08T23:17:00.000-04:002009-03-08T23:17:00.000-04:00Absolutely-- and I think for some kinds of things ...Absolutely-- and I think for some kinds of things the card system is the best way to go. For anything focused around narrative and story primarily, I'll go with the cards. For example I'd do Firefly, any kind of investigation game, Mage, or the like with the card system. <BR/><BR/>If I want a little more crunch though, ala old school Dungeon Crawls, High Fantasy and so on, I think the cards system works less well-- or rather I could modify it to simulate that but I think I'd lose some of what makes the system work. <BR/><BR/>But yes, I really like the Card system- especially since it is so easy to run for and puts more power in the hands of the players.Lowell Francishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02359280169506945906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4764158821384594980.post-5237837508859806492009-03-08T22:45:00.000-04:002009-03-08T22:45:00.000-04:00I dunno. I am spoiled now with your card system. I...I dunno. I am spoiled now with your card system. It is so easy, as well as being open-ended and more creative.Cher Merehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10336087288319886516noreply@blogger.com